1. I am close to Megan’s age and have kids close to Sarah’s age. I find your conversations helpful in understanding my kids’ generational perspectives. (Like what the heck are they talking about and where are they getting these ideas from?) Sarah is great at articulating the educational and social media world my kids grew up in (and live in today) as far as what/where/how they get information and the social consequences (via school/social media) of those experiences and how all that has shaped their current worldview.
2. I lean right and have friends and a child who lean left. I find Meghan’s perspective helpful in bridging the left/right divide now that there are a lot of conversations we can no longer have in today’s polarized world. I tend to agree more with Sarah (maybe due to my personality type, economic background?) when Meghan and Sarah disagree. But since I grew up in the same generation as Meghan, it’s helpful getting Meghan’s take on subjects. It’s also comforting knowing that Meghan and Sarah are just as perplexed at the same things I am perplexed about even though we have different political views.
3. Both Sarah and Meghan provide sanity to an insane world!! This podcast is entertaining and intelligent. I love the satire and subjects. It is comforting to know that there are others out there who think/feel the same way I do and that I am not crazy. Maybe?
Please keep talking because you do make a difference! ❤️❤️❤️
It seemed to me that they did not like it when I called them an "artisanal podcast". Which is odd. If I go to a farmer's market, I'll pay significantly more money for an artisanal food item than I would going to a grocery store, on the theory that I can get a higher quality product, support a small, local, non-corporate business model, and chat with the farmer about where my food came from. It's not a bad thing, but it is a niche.
Realistically, if you consider what Meghan used to do, imagine how much money any one reader would have paid-indirectly-to her. How many people would have spent enough money on women's magazines that the fractional portion of those magazines which she actually wrote would add up to $60 a year? Few, if any. And how many people spent money on specific physical media products because they wanted to read a Meghan Daum celebrity interview? She was a small part of a big machine, and now she's a personal brand. I could get a subscription to the Washington Post now for less than I'm paying to listen to two women talk. This seems like artisanal media to me.
It is a new economic model, but it's really hard to go viral and most of the people who are really big are people who have transcended different media. Andrew Sullivan was a conventional big media employee and then a blogger and then a podcaster, etc. etc.. I don't know what would realistically cause these two to make more money in this arena.
I think one main reason people go viral is because of controversy. Meghan and Sarah do discuss controversial subjects but aren’t typically “the” subject of the controversy.
There are opportunities for this podcast to be more controversial but I’m not sure there is a desire for this right now.?
Not knowing if this has ever been studied but I found myself very risk averse after I had children. I physically noticed it when I took my 10 year old on a carnival ride that was somewhat more scary than the “kiddie” rides. Maybe Sarah is (understandably) prioritizing her family over career right now? Just a thought..
I mean the Hawk Tuah girl now has a podcast called - and I am not making this up - "Talk Tuah". It has way more subscribers than they do. You don't have to do a million second-by-second Youtube analytics.
Wonder how you guys would respond to the analogy of Kamala Harris being the Mr. Beast of presidential campaigns. Having no ideas of substance because doing so might alienate a part of the audience (or cause “harm”)
it's a strategic calculation. Orange's favorable/unfavorable levels are frozen in stone. He's a known quantity. The strategic calculation is tack hard to center and sanity (as you saw in Acceptance Speech) then stay quiet on details and limit interviews so as to not "fuck up" or have a word salad moment. They figure enough people will say - I'm tired of Trumpian bullshit (there's a way to do Trumpism without the grating personality and narcissism of Trump, you saw Vance do this at debate) so we'll give her a chance.
It *is* brilliant. Even though she’s literally 2nd-in-command of the current administration she’s a complete blank slate.
I think it’s a sad reflection of our intellectual culture. Everything’s a platitude, euphemism, whatever-“neutral” because as soon as you express anything specific, people rush in and say “You’re not being inclusive!” or “But what about” or “You can’t speak for MY experience!”
I found this discussion incredibly disappointing, especially with Sarah's take. While I understand why you ladies would be looking for ways to make this endeavor more successful, it seems that you have totally forgotten why you are doing what you're doing. Your product is not anything like what Mr. Beast makes and using his tactics is a major category error. Mr. Beast's goal is about providing shallow entertainment to viewers with no meaningful value to the world. No surprise such an endeavor would focus on the most superficial and trite aspects of their production to engage people who have those interests. But aren't you interested in something more important than cheap engagement? Aren't you trying to have discussions about issues that matter in the world? Do you really think that someone who is interested in spending 80 minutes listening to your perspectives on cultural controversies is going to care about a video title or the lighting or your thumbnails?
This was like hearing a five-star chef taking culinary advice from a cereal mogul who keeps telling them, "You need to add more sugar, give your food brighter colors, put your product into interesting shapes, and have fun cartoon characters on the box!" And then hearing the chef say, "Yeah, maybe we need to do that. After all, look how successful those guys are!"
I truly hope that you both are successful with this, but I think you need to remember that success in your realm is not achieved by using the same tactics as those used by the people making stupid viral videos. Nor is success judged by the same metrics.
I find Mr. Beast funny and entertaining… but exhausting and unenlightening.
I devour Sarah & Meghan as soon as I have time to listen to them. But I listen when 1) I have alone time, 2) I’m working on my house or yard or 3) I’m walking. It’s not compulsive, and I think there’s a market for that.
I can only speak for me - Meghan is funny in a distinctly Gen X sort of way; playfully mocking cultural memes the way a cat plays with a mouse. Does the mouse live or die after play time? Does it matter to the cat? No. Sarah’s funny when she wants to be, too. I think you both have thoughtful perspectives on things and you’re talking about stuff I’m interested in… usually. The only problem was you two talking over each other - and that’s gotten better.
Do what Beast did. Sort your podcasts by most viewed, most liked, what did they have in common? What was in those but missing from shows that are closer to the bottom. Weigh the list by release date because presumably subscribers increase over time. You can optimize your authentic approach. You’ll never be as rich as the vacuous Mr. Beast, but you can be the best Special Place in Hell you could be.
Knowing you two, you both already did that, and it hasn’t worked as much as you hoped. I’ll be subscribed all the same.
My main use of YouTube is watching British tv. It’s like regular tv, but slower, more human, more boring. I love it! Here are some show to make your algorithm great again:
QI
Taskmaster
Would I lie to you (Bob Mortimer and David Mitchell are hilarious)
Harry Potter were children's books but adults were definitely reading them at the time. I was not a fan and was constantly surprised at its presence on in store adult books charts.
I think the dislike for reading something that requires more work can also be traced back to the commercialization of Wattpad writing.
They were all right. I grew up with them. They do make me laugh though. The tone of the books is not nearly so overtly dark in the beginning as it is in the end.
They did not make nearly the Impression on me as did the LOTR books or even the Redwall books.
The first three Potter books are funny, entertaining children's books. Around the time of the fourth they turn into an bloated, overlong YA soap opera.
It would not surprise me if in an alternate timeline where the books were less popular she would have shaved a clean 200 pages off of some of those books. Having them published and being onto another project much faster.
I’m not a writer though so I could be dead wrong hahaha.
Hahaha. I don’t think they were that bad at the end. I would say the quality stayed pretty steady, just that she felt the freedom to flesh out some smaller storylines to give the main story more depth.
I will say that the series was popular enough that I don’t think it would have affected sales much even if she had mailed it in.
I read quite a few David Eddings offerings. I liked them but I lost interest after the main cast of characters that I had invested in dropped out. I haven’t thought about those in a while. As an adult I loved the Wheel of Time, the Gardens of the Moon, most of Brandon Sanderson’s books are great. James Islington has some excellent ones as well. “The shadow of what was lost” is the beginning to an excellent trilogy.
Check out R. Scott Bakker's "The Second Apocalypse" (the first book is "The Darkness That Come Before"). I haven't been able to read fantasy since them. Everything else seems flat and pointless.
On the subject of post literacy, this doesn’t just apply to literature. People are terrifyingly inept at interpreting basic graphs, and basic statistics. There’s both an issue with effort and execution here. This sort of thing would infuriate me as a politician or policy leader, so they have my sympathies there. At the same time I’m suspicious that many of our leaders suffer from the same ineptitude.
I humbly suggest that we don't let dismay curdle into despair and start thinking the Rescue the Republic people are "right about everything." In know there's a doctor in the house who may care to set me straight, but I don't think that Jordan Peterson is right when he says, e. g., that the "so-called vaccine" killed more people than the "so-called pandemic." Likewise RFK Jr.'s claim that HIV is an autoimmune disorder brought on by excessive use of amyl nitrate poppers and other party drugs. Let's not lose our grip! Keep hope alive!
I seriously doubt that the vaccine killed more people than the virus.
However, I think it's highly likely that the loss of life from suicides, drug overdoses, missed medical care, and other secondary effects of COVID-era policies killed more people than the virus itself. Particularly if you look at things in terms of years of life lost rather than number of deaths, considering that people who died of COVID were overwhelmingly older people with poor health, while a lot of these other deaths are concentrated in younger people. The epidemiologists are fighting this one out.
The conspiracy thinking can go off the rails, but I think the mistrust in institutions that precedes it is justified.
Amongst the “at risk” populations I think your first sentence is probably right on.
I think once you start getting into the healthier demographics it becomes a much more plausible scenario.
The realistic risk of getting/having Covid as a young healthily person was/is so low that you have to start splitting hairs with the data to even find evidence of the vaccines efficacy.
The diminishing returns in that demographic make the discussion at least plausible considering how many people were propagandized into taking it.
Yes let’s hope that the swamp of government and corporate that has orchestrated the last 60 decades that has seen American society decline by every metric will miraculously see the light and work to improve the lives of average people. Stay the course!
Mr. Beast and his ilk make game shows, they're basically Price is Right with less humor. What you two are doing is cultural, political commentary, which by its nature will not have very much addictive potential except for the rare weirdo like us who are addicted to culture war bullshit (no offense). You're comparing apples to oranges. He's like an Amazon merchant making a living by selling a stereo for 5 cents less than the next guy. There's creativity, there's no art. It's the stock market, it's gambling, it's chess.
I wish Sarah would just admit she has a crush on JD Vance. Two weeks ago she was defending his lying about eating cats and dogs as a good campaign strategy. But now he’s the nuanced guy who read a Freakonomics-style study that directly contradicts her frequent, strident claims on Twitter that the decision to have children has nothing to do with costs.
And she thinks Kamala is a hollow candidate because, ironically, Kamala is taking a Mr. Beast approach to winning. In 2011, Harris wrote a very nuanced, well-researched book called Smart on Crime. Great book, terrible campaign strategy. That’s why she now focuses her advertising communicating that she locked up transnational cartel bosses.
If 2016 taught us anything, nuanced policy is practically meaningless. JD Vance knows this too, which is why he’s done a complete 180 from 2020 when he was calling Trump’s policies a failure. (This is supposedly the period when he realized he was wrong about Trump and loved his awesome policies.)
The obsessive specialized nerd path can sometimes cross with the obsessive wealth (or power) acquisition path. Historically the latter had to be more social, playing power games to dominate people. A business not only based on, but actually ABOUT a digital screen in your room, creates the possibility of rich autism. But, you brave, fascinating, public intellectual ladies: why would you worry about this? It would be nice to have both meaning and cash, but if you have to choose... Yes, it's depressing, but keep making stuff that means. Somebody will listen
If y'all really want to take up a cause and start a movement, maybe it should be "not having an opinion." Part of the negative aspects of culture these days is the push to stand for something. "If you're not with us you're against us" (conservative version) or "if you're not anti-racist, your racist!" (liberal version) etc.
lol - I hit the encyclopedias hard as a kid, but I was also encouraged to write letters to places... like zoos when I did a report on wolves and I loved it cause I was extroverted. The internet makes that easier, but it's nowhere near as fun getting an email as it is a letter in the mail.
Why I subscribe to this podcast:
1. I am close to Megan’s age and have kids close to Sarah’s age. I find your conversations helpful in understanding my kids’ generational perspectives. (Like what the heck are they talking about and where are they getting these ideas from?) Sarah is great at articulating the educational and social media world my kids grew up in (and live in today) as far as what/where/how they get information and the social consequences (via school/social media) of those experiences and how all that has shaped their current worldview.
2. I lean right and have friends and a child who lean left. I find Meghan’s perspective helpful in bridging the left/right divide now that there are a lot of conversations we can no longer have in today’s polarized world. I tend to agree more with Sarah (maybe due to my personality type, economic background?) when Meghan and Sarah disagree. But since I grew up in the same generation as Meghan, it’s helpful getting Meghan’s take on subjects. It’s also comforting knowing that Meghan and Sarah are just as perplexed at the same things I am perplexed about even though we have different political views.
3. Both Sarah and Meghan provide sanity to an insane world!! This podcast is entertaining and intelligent. I love the satire and subjects. It is comforting to know that there are others out there who think/feel the same way I do and that I am not crazy. Maybe?
Please keep talking because you do make a difference! ❤️❤️❤️
It seemed to me that they did not like it when I called them an "artisanal podcast". Which is odd. If I go to a farmer's market, I'll pay significantly more money for an artisanal food item than I would going to a grocery store, on the theory that I can get a higher quality product, support a small, local, non-corporate business model, and chat with the farmer about where my food came from. It's not a bad thing, but it is a niche.
Realistically, if you consider what Meghan used to do, imagine how much money any one reader would have paid-indirectly-to her. How many people would have spent enough money on women's magazines that the fractional portion of those magazines which she actually wrote would add up to $60 a year? Few, if any. And how many people spent money on specific physical media products because they wanted to read a Meghan Daum celebrity interview? She was a small part of a big machine, and now she's a personal brand. I could get a subscription to the Washington Post now for less than I'm paying to listen to two women talk. This seems like artisanal media to me.
It is a new economic model, but it's really hard to go viral and most of the people who are really big are people who have transcended different media. Andrew Sullivan was a conventional big media employee and then a blogger and then a podcaster, etc. etc.. I don't know what would realistically cause these two to make more money in this arena.
I think one main reason people go viral is because of controversy. Meghan and Sarah do discuss controversial subjects but aren’t typically “the” subject of the controversy.
There are opportunities for this podcast to be more controversial but I’m not sure there is a desire for this right now.?
Not knowing if this has ever been studied but I found myself very risk averse after I had children. I physically noticed it when I took my 10 year old on a carnival ride that was somewhat more scary than the “kiddie” rides. Maybe Sarah is (understandably) prioritizing her family over career right now? Just a thought..
I mean the Hawk Tuah girl now has a podcast called - and I am not making this up - "Talk Tuah". It has way more subscribers than they do. You don't have to do a million second-by-second Youtube analytics.
Wonder how you guys would respond to the analogy of Kamala Harris being the Mr. Beast of presidential campaigns. Having no ideas of substance because doing so might alienate a part of the audience (or cause “harm”)
it's a strategic calculation. Orange's favorable/unfavorable levels are frozen in stone. He's a known quantity. The strategic calculation is tack hard to center and sanity (as you saw in Acceptance Speech) then stay quiet on details and limit interviews so as to not "fuck up" or have a word salad moment. They figure enough people will say - I'm tired of Trumpian bullshit (there's a way to do Trumpism without the grating personality and narcissism of Trump, you saw Vance do this at debate) so we'll give her a chance.
It *is* brilliant. Even though she’s literally 2nd-in-command of the current administration she’s a complete blank slate.
I think it’s a sad reflection of our intellectual culture. Everything’s a platitude, euphemism, whatever-“neutral” because as soon as you express anything specific, people rush in and say “You’re not being inclusive!” or “But what about” or “You can’t speak for MY experience!”
I found this discussion incredibly disappointing, especially with Sarah's take. While I understand why you ladies would be looking for ways to make this endeavor more successful, it seems that you have totally forgotten why you are doing what you're doing. Your product is not anything like what Mr. Beast makes and using his tactics is a major category error. Mr. Beast's goal is about providing shallow entertainment to viewers with no meaningful value to the world. No surprise such an endeavor would focus on the most superficial and trite aspects of their production to engage people who have those interests. But aren't you interested in something more important than cheap engagement? Aren't you trying to have discussions about issues that matter in the world? Do you really think that someone who is interested in spending 80 minutes listening to your perspectives on cultural controversies is going to care about a video title or the lighting or your thumbnails?
This was like hearing a five-star chef taking culinary advice from a cereal mogul who keeps telling them, "You need to add more sugar, give your food brighter colors, put your product into interesting shapes, and have fun cartoon characters on the box!" And then hearing the chef say, "Yeah, maybe we need to do that. After all, look how successful those guys are!"
I truly hope that you both are successful with this, but I think you need to remember that success in your realm is not achieved by using the same tactics as those used by the people making stupid viral videos. Nor is success judged by the same metrics.
I find Mr. Beast funny and entertaining… but exhausting and unenlightening.
I devour Sarah & Meghan as soon as I have time to listen to them. But I listen when 1) I have alone time, 2) I’m working on my house or yard or 3) I’m walking. It’s not compulsive, and I think there’s a market for that.
I can only speak for me - Meghan is funny in a distinctly Gen X sort of way; playfully mocking cultural memes the way a cat plays with a mouse. Does the mouse live or die after play time? Does it matter to the cat? No. Sarah’s funny when she wants to be, too. I think you both have thoughtful perspectives on things and you’re talking about stuff I’m interested in… usually. The only problem was you two talking over each other - and that’s gotten better.
Do what Beast did. Sort your podcasts by most viewed, most liked, what did they have in common? What was in those but missing from shows that are closer to the bottom. Weigh the list by release date because presumably subscribers increase over time. You can optimize your authentic approach. You’ll never be as rich as the vacuous Mr. Beast, but you can be the best Special Place in Hell you could be.
Knowing you two, you both already did that, and it hasn’t worked as much as you hoped. I’ll be subscribed all the same.
My main use of YouTube is watching British tv. It’s like regular tv, but slower, more human, more boring. I love it! Here are some show to make your algorithm great again:
QI
Taskmaster
Would I lie to you (Bob Mortimer and David Mitchell are hilarious)
8 out of 10 cats does countdown
Mock the week (no longer on the air)
Big fat quiz of the year
Have i got a bit more news for you
So many more…
Harry Potter were children's books but adults were definitely reading them at the time. I was not a fan and was constantly surprised at its presence on in store adult books charts.
I think the dislike for reading something that requires more work can also be traced back to the commercialization of Wattpad writing.
Stewart Lee has thoughts: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8shqjr6O8
They were all right. I grew up with them. They do make me laugh though. The tone of the books is not nearly so overtly dark in the beginning as it is in the end.
They did not make nearly the Impression on me as did the LOTR books or even the Redwall books.
I read them once and forgot all the details. I agree about Redwall and LoTR.
The first three Potter books are funny, entertaining children's books. Around the time of the fourth they turn into an bloated, overlong YA soap opera.
It would not surprise me if in an alternate timeline where the books were less popular she would have shaved a clean 200 pages off of some of those books. Having them published and being onto another project much faster.
I’m not a writer though so I could be dead wrong hahaha.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProtectionFromEditors
Hahaha. I don’t think they were that bad at the end. I would say the quality stayed pretty steady, just that she felt the freedom to flesh out some smaller storylines to give the main story more depth.
I will say that the series was popular enough that I don’t think it would have affected sales much even if she had mailed it in.
I was a big David Eddings fan and other general fantasy, but I don't think I can vouch for their quality as an adult... 😅
I read quite a few David Eddings offerings. I liked them but I lost interest after the main cast of characters that I had invested in dropped out. I haven’t thought about those in a while. As an adult I loved the Wheel of Time, the Gardens of the Moon, most of Brandon Sanderson’s books are great. James Islington has some excellent ones as well. “The shadow of what was lost” is the beginning to an excellent trilogy.
Check out R. Scott Bakker's "The Second Apocalypse" (the first book is "The Darkness That Come Before"). I haven't been able to read fantasy since them. Everything else seems flat and pointless.
On the subject of post literacy, this doesn’t just apply to literature. People are terrifyingly inept at interpreting basic graphs, and basic statistics. There’s both an issue with effort and execution here. This sort of thing would infuriate me as a politician or policy leader, so they have my sympathies there. At the same time I’m suspicious that many of our leaders suffer from the same ineptitude.
"youtube is the future" lolololol ... 2010's ringing to let you know: Youtube is the past.
I humbly suggest that we don't let dismay curdle into despair and start thinking the Rescue the Republic people are "right about everything." In know there's a doctor in the house who may care to set me straight, but I don't think that Jordan Peterson is right when he says, e. g., that the "so-called vaccine" killed more people than the "so-called pandemic." Likewise RFK Jr.'s claim that HIV is an autoimmune disorder brought on by excessive use of amyl nitrate poppers and other party drugs. Let's not lose our grip! Keep hope alive!
I seriously doubt that the vaccine killed more people than the virus.
However, I think it's highly likely that the loss of life from suicides, drug overdoses, missed medical care, and other secondary effects of COVID-era policies killed more people than the virus itself. Particularly if you look at things in terms of years of life lost rather than number of deaths, considering that people who died of COVID were overwhelmingly older people with poor health, while a lot of these other deaths are concentrated in younger people. The epidemiologists are fighting this one out.
The conspiracy thinking can go off the rails, but I think the mistrust in institutions that precedes it is justified.
Amongst the “at risk” populations I think your first sentence is probably right on.
I think once you start getting into the healthier demographics it becomes a much more plausible scenario.
The realistic risk of getting/having Covid as a young healthily person was/is so low that you have to start splitting hairs with the data to even find evidence of the vaccines efficacy.
The diminishing returns in that demographic make the discussion at least plausible considering how many people were propagandized into taking it.
Yes let’s hope that the swamp of government and corporate that has orchestrated the last 60 decades that has seen American society decline by every metric will miraculously see the light and work to improve the lives of average people. Stay the course!
You all are missing the opportunity to talk about Mr. Beast's sidekick being a MtF possible autogynephiliac.
Mr. Beast and his ilk make game shows, they're basically Price is Right with less humor. What you two are doing is cultural, political commentary, which by its nature will not have very much addictive potential except for the rare weirdo like us who are addicted to culture war bullshit (no offense). You're comparing apples to oranges. He's like an Amazon merchant making a living by selling a stereo for 5 cents less than the next guy. There's creativity, there's no art. It's the stock market, it's gambling, it's chess.
I wish Sarah would just admit she has a crush on JD Vance. Two weeks ago she was defending his lying about eating cats and dogs as a good campaign strategy. But now he’s the nuanced guy who read a Freakonomics-style study that directly contradicts her frequent, strident claims on Twitter that the decision to have children has nothing to do with costs.
And she thinks Kamala is a hollow candidate because, ironically, Kamala is taking a Mr. Beast approach to winning. In 2011, Harris wrote a very nuanced, well-researched book called Smart on Crime. Great book, terrible campaign strategy. That’s why she now focuses her advertising communicating that she locked up transnational cartel bosses.
If 2016 taught us anything, nuanced policy is practically meaningless. JD Vance knows this too, which is why he’s done a complete 180 from 2020 when he was calling Trump’s policies a failure. (This is supposedly the period when he realized he was wrong about Trump and loved his awesome policies.)
The obsessive specialized nerd path can sometimes cross with the obsessive wealth (or power) acquisition path. Historically the latter had to be more social, playing power games to dominate people. A business not only based on, but actually ABOUT a digital screen in your room, creates the possibility of rich autism. But, you brave, fascinating, public intellectual ladies: why would you worry about this? It would be nice to have both meaning and cash, but if you have to choose... Yes, it's depressing, but keep making stuff that means. Somebody will listen
First
If y'all really want to take up a cause and start a movement, maybe it should be "not having an opinion." Part of the negative aspects of culture these days is the push to stand for something. "If you're not with us you're against us" (conservative version) or "if you're not anti-racist, your racist!" (liberal version) etc.
lol - I hit the encyclopedias hard as a kid, but I was also encouraged to write letters to places... like zoos when I did a report on wolves and I loved it cause I was extroverted. The internet makes that easier, but it's nowhere near as fun getting an email as it is a letter in the mail.