The high pitched female character on Will & Grace was Karen played by Megan Mullally. Her voice is naturally high but not as high as the Karen character.
I’ve agreed with similar sentiments as that expressed by Jane Lynch in the past and long been self-conscious about my own voice, but I am rethinking this after the episode. There are a few podcast voices that I dislike because they have a tone or affect that I find grating—mainly they are smug or condensing rather than reflective and self-aware. It is an attitude issue I think, but I notice that I will say that I don’t like how they “sound” or I don’t like their “voice” yet I notice that I enjoy listening to other podcasts of people with unusual voices—even those that are high-pictched, rapid-fire, sing-song-y, which wouldn’t be the voice I would choose for a generic audiobook but works for the podcaster because their approach to the subject of the conversation is engaging. I also noticed that Jonathan Haidt has the sing-song quality to his cadence, and do not mind it. This makes me think that my statement that I don’t like the voices of certain podcasters is often about personality and tone rather than pitch. That said, for a generic audiobook, I’d like to always hear the voice of Oliver Burkeman.
Spent some time in NYC and noticed that many women were psychologically damaged from the dating scene. The vast majority want a stable, long term, monogamous relationship. Instead, they end up being intimate faster than they would prefer with men they don't really like.
Much of "sex liberation" is a post-hoc rationalization for women making serially unfortunate romantic decisions. The author of the article (tacitly) claims that she swapped out the pursuit of relationships with no-strings-attached kinky sex and has never been happier. Methinks she dost protest too much, and its because she can't admit she is paying for a bill of goods.
The primary bureaucratic imperative is to increase the scope of bureaucracy. The Stanford case demonstrates what the endgame looks like: creeping soviet-totalitarianism where every aspect of life is gerrymandered into homogenous boxes, forms filled in triplicate, and a Dolores Umbridge character smiling politely while declining your request to enjoy life.
The administrators fear competing institutions. People cant be allowed to see life outside the system lest they realize that the system exists to transfer wealth and power from you to them. Phrases like "safety", "inclusion", "diversity" et.al. are thought terminating cliches designed to give the managerial class Carte Blanche to wrap the world in red tape.
Elizabeth Holmes was speaking with a lowered larynx. If you inhale as if you’re yawning, you’ll feel the larynx drop. That’s the vocal tract position she was using. A lot of male pop/soul singers used this technique, mostly in the 80s. Much of this could be attributed to vocal coach Seth Riggs who stressed that singers could sing with a fuller tone at higher pitches if they could keep their larynx from rising (which is what it will naturally do unless an effort is made to keep it down.)
The king of low larynx/high singing is Michael McDonald. Other examples are James Ingram, Al Jarreau and Darryl Hall in the We are the World video. This style was very popular.
The lowered larynx works for speech in the sense that it introduces a lot of low frequencies as well as lowering the pitch (two different things- EQ vs pitch manipulation), but it does so at the expense of higher frequencies that are necessary for a truly harmonically rich tone. Ultimately, speaking with a low larynx sounds like a cheap shortcut and doesn’t really fool anyone.
Choice of microphone (along with EQ) would do more to help podcasting people with thin voices. Many podcasters use either the Shure SM 7b (the Joe Rogan mic) or the Electrovoice RE20 (the Rush Limbaugh mic). The RE 20 in particular is THE talk radio mic and has been for a long time. Part of the reason is the fact that you can speak very close to the mic without having unnatural boomy lows overwhelm the signal. Speaking close to a mic will allow much of the lower, quieter harmonic content to be picked up. It will also pick up a lot of the sparkly, airy detail at the top of the frequency spectrum which can be quite attractive. Also, many people’s voices rise in pitch when they rise in volume. (Mike Pesca, Penn Gillette) Being able to speak at a natural volume on a close mic will improve the tone of many people. (Pesca and Gillette are both great btw. Just using examples off the top of my head)
Vocal fry is not a deal breaker for me. I don’t mind it unless it sounds like an affectation. In the voice world it’s called “pulse register”. It’s the edges of the vocal folds making the lightest possible contact. There are vocal fry exercises that are especially beneficial to people who have trouble with vocal fold closure (breathy voices).
Appreciate the attention to detail! Fwiw, I use a Shure Beta58 mic, which has a clearer top-end than an SM7B, making it more suitable for a female voice.
Here is what I understand after two years of doing this and from being advised by my brother, who's a sound engineer at Warner Bros. The SM7b is a very popular radio/podcasting mic if you want to buy one for the look. It doesn't pick up anything that isn't right in front of it so it's good if you're just in a regular room rather than a studio, but if you back off a few inches you'll be VERY low. It has a very low output too, so you'd probably need another device in-line called a "Cloud Lifter" to add more gain. (And I do NOT want more gear, believe me.) Also, arguably the SM7b is better for male voices, which can take advantage of the lower harmonics it picks up. As my brother explains it, radio DJs also boost the low frequencies with EQ, compress the audio, and you get a low frequency boost from "proximity effect" when you're right on top of any mic. Rogan, Rush et al of course have engineers with a console and outboard gear to make it sound super pro. Doing it yourself, you need something as simple and failsafe as possible. Still, believe me, anything and everything can always go wrong. (The issue of remote guests is a whole other thing!)
The thing is, no matter what mic people use, EVERYONE's voice sounds different on every mic. It's very much trial and error. Personally, my most valuable piece of equipment is a RIcola cough drop in hot water with honey. It helps the vocal fry. I've fallen off the wagon lately and need to be better about it. -- Meghan
Probably too much attention to detail on my part! It’s just a favorite topic of mine. The Beta58 is a great choice. Your signal sounds pro. Other than an occasional bark or siren, I never hear any significant background noise. (The beta58 has a pickup pattern that rejects background noise). I listen to a fair amount of audio content that is plagued by splashy, ambient room sounds. It can be distracting.
Then there are those podcasts where the host sounds like they have a sock over the mic (muffled sound) A little tweak of the EQ (high mid bump) would fix it. (Jonah Goldberg- if you’re reading this, please consider this free advice).
As far as looks- the RE20 is infinitely cooler looking than the SM7b in my opinion. Fun fact about the SM7b though- It was the mic used on Michael Jackson’s Thriller. (MJ could have used anything he wanted but - to your point- the specific combination of a particular mic on a particular voice is distinct.)
But the original subject was voices, not gear, so I’ll wrap up by reiterating the following-
Vocal fry is a naturally occurring phenomenon that, to my ears, is only annoying when it’s used as an affectation. Based on conversations I’ve had, I think the discourse around female vocal fry has made people self conscious about it. But the thing is- guys have it too! And guys “up speak” as well. I’ve caught myself doing it! What I’m saying is- the gender binary is a fiction and we’re all just on a spectrum! (That’s not actually what I was saying- disregard).
The Ricola tea sounds great. Another good one is hot water with lemon, honey and cayenne pepper. It seems to temporarily burn off the rasp for me.
One more quick point since the episode briefly touched on trans voices ( by way of Ben Shapiro which is hilarious and surreal). There was a trans actor in the Queen’s Gambit. I don’t know if many people noticed. She played an employee of the boarding school (teacher or chaplain perhaps...?) Anyway- I looked her up, and in addition to being an actress, she is also a vocal coach who specializes in helping people find and develop their voices after (and perhaps during) transition. I found that interesting and pretty moving
Re cosmetic surgery: one can do it "for herself" in the sense that she has so completely internalized whatever cultural ideal one might discuss that it honestly doesn't feel like it is "for" someone else, on the macro level. Obviously no one should do it because a specific individual asks them or wants them to do it. Many people at least used to say that they didn't want to be attractive but rather normal. I relate to that, as someone who has had an extremely high amount of cosmetic surgery. Not Michael Jackson/Joan Rivers level but truly a staggering amount.
Women’s voices! Yes, lower them if you can. Yes, limit vocal fry. I think there used to be a thing I referred to as “radio voices.” I.e. there were people, both men and women, whose voices sounded good on the radio, then on TV. People without radio voices could do all the less glamorous, but essential, behind the scenes work. Your voices are good enough that I am willing to listen to you. Unfortunately, as podcasting has become a thing, many people, both men and women, who are hard to listen to are now on the air. Grrr. Some could sound better with better equipment, I suppose, but some should stick to writing, research, etc. I do not stick with podcasts if the voices are awful.
It’s depressing that some universities feel the need to regulate many aspects of students’ lives. I was never a fan of fraternities and sororities, but I wouldn’t have wanted my alma mater to ban them when I was there. Voluntary organizations are good to have, especially in people’s formative years.
There’s one area in which I’d welcome a crackdown on student behavior, though: drinking. Maybe 21 is too high a drinking age, but if it’s the legal age in your state, and you’re running a university, it’s good for you to punish drinking on campus. Not only would it be a good lesson to students that the law matters, but it might weed out students who don’t take college seriously, and just want to get drunk and do the bare minimum academically.
You should charge extra for these beautifully written show notes!
Glad you appreciate them! We can't guarantee them every week, but we'll try.
I also have a real estate porn habit and hate dating, so I can relate to Meghan’s priorities.
The high pitched female character on Will & Grace was Karen played by Megan Mullally. Her voice is naturally high but not as high as the Karen character.
I’ve agreed with similar sentiments as that expressed by Jane Lynch in the past and long been self-conscious about my own voice, but I am rethinking this after the episode. There are a few podcast voices that I dislike because they have a tone or affect that I find grating—mainly they are smug or condensing rather than reflective and self-aware. It is an attitude issue I think, but I notice that I will say that I don’t like how they “sound” or I don’t like their “voice” yet I notice that I enjoy listening to other podcasts of people with unusual voices—even those that are high-pictched, rapid-fire, sing-song-y, which wouldn’t be the voice I would choose for a generic audiobook but works for the podcaster because their approach to the subject of the conversation is engaging. I also noticed that Jonathan Haidt has the sing-song quality to his cadence, and do not mind it. This makes me think that my statement that I don’t like the voices of certain podcasters is often about personality and tone rather than pitch. That said, for a generic audiobook, I’d like to always hear the voice of Oliver Burkeman.
Spent some time in NYC and noticed that many women were psychologically damaged from the dating scene. The vast majority want a stable, long term, monogamous relationship. Instead, they end up being intimate faster than they would prefer with men they don't really like.
Much of "sex liberation" is a post-hoc rationalization for women making serially unfortunate romantic decisions. The author of the article (tacitly) claims that she swapped out the pursuit of relationships with no-strings-attached kinky sex and has never been happier. Methinks she dost protest too much, and its because she can't admit she is paying for a bill of goods.
The primary bureaucratic imperative is to increase the scope of bureaucracy. The Stanford case demonstrates what the endgame looks like: creeping soviet-totalitarianism where every aspect of life is gerrymandered into homogenous boxes, forms filled in triplicate, and a Dolores Umbridge character smiling politely while declining your request to enjoy life.
The administrators fear competing institutions. People cant be allowed to see life outside the system lest they realize that the system exists to transfer wealth and power from you to them. Phrases like "safety", "inclusion", "diversity" et.al. are thought terminating cliches designed to give the managerial class Carte Blanche to wrap the world in red tape.
Elizabeth Holmes was speaking with a lowered larynx. If you inhale as if you’re yawning, you’ll feel the larynx drop. That’s the vocal tract position she was using. A lot of male pop/soul singers used this technique, mostly in the 80s. Much of this could be attributed to vocal coach Seth Riggs who stressed that singers could sing with a fuller tone at higher pitches if they could keep their larynx from rising (which is what it will naturally do unless an effort is made to keep it down.)
The king of low larynx/high singing is Michael McDonald. Other examples are James Ingram, Al Jarreau and Darryl Hall in the We are the World video. This style was very popular.
The lowered larynx works for speech in the sense that it introduces a lot of low frequencies as well as lowering the pitch (two different things- EQ vs pitch manipulation), but it does so at the expense of higher frequencies that are necessary for a truly harmonically rich tone. Ultimately, speaking with a low larynx sounds like a cheap shortcut and doesn’t really fool anyone.
Choice of microphone (along with EQ) would do more to help podcasting people with thin voices. Many podcasters use either the Shure SM 7b (the Joe Rogan mic) or the Electrovoice RE20 (the Rush Limbaugh mic). The RE 20 in particular is THE talk radio mic and has been for a long time. Part of the reason is the fact that you can speak very close to the mic without having unnatural boomy lows overwhelm the signal. Speaking close to a mic will allow much of the lower, quieter harmonic content to be picked up. It will also pick up a lot of the sparkly, airy detail at the top of the frequency spectrum which can be quite attractive. Also, many people’s voices rise in pitch when they rise in volume. (Mike Pesca, Penn Gillette) Being able to speak at a natural volume on a close mic will improve the tone of many people. (Pesca and Gillette are both great btw. Just using examples off the top of my head)
Vocal fry is not a deal breaker for me. I don’t mind it unless it sounds like an affectation. In the voice world it’s called “pulse register”. It’s the edges of the vocal folds making the lightest possible contact. There are vocal fry exercises that are especially beneficial to people who have trouble with vocal fold closure (breathy voices).
Both of you have nice voices. Carry on.
Appreciate the attention to detail! Fwiw, I use a Shure Beta58 mic, which has a clearer top-end than an SM7B, making it more suitable for a female voice.
Here is what I understand after two years of doing this and from being advised by my brother, who's a sound engineer at Warner Bros. The SM7b is a very popular radio/podcasting mic if you want to buy one for the look. It doesn't pick up anything that isn't right in front of it so it's good if you're just in a regular room rather than a studio, but if you back off a few inches you'll be VERY low. It has a very low output too, so you'd probably need another device in-line called a "Cloud Lifter" to add more gain. (And I do NOT want more gear, believe me.) Also, arguably the SM7b is better for male voices, which can take advantage of the lower harmonics it picks up. As my brother explains it, radio DJs also boost the low frequencies with EQ, compress the audio, and you get a low frequency boost from "proximity effect" when you're right on top of any mic. Rogan, Rush et al of course have engineers with a console and outboard gear to make it sound super pro. Doing it yourself, you need something as simple and failsafe as possible. Still, believe me, anything and everything can always go wrong. (The issue of remote guests is a whole other thing!)
The thing is, no matter what mic people use, EVERYONE's voice sounds different on every mic. It's very much trial and error. Personally, my most valuable piece of equipment is a RIcola cough drop in hot water with honey. It helps the vocal fry. I've fallen off the wagon lately and need to be better about it. -- Meghan
Probably too much attention to detail on my part! It’s just a favorite topic of mine. The Beta58 is a great choice. Your signal sounds pro. Other than an occasional bark or siren, I never hear any significant background noise. (The beta58 has a pickup pattern that rejects background noise). I listen to a fair amount of audio content that is plagued by splashy, ambient room sounds. It can be distracting.
Then there are those podcasts where the host sounds like they have a sock over the mic (muffled sound) A little tweak of the EQ (high mid bump) would fix it. (Jonah Goldberg- if you’re reading this, please consider this free advice).
As far as looks- the RE20 is infinitely cooler looking than the SM7b in my opinion. Fun fact about the SM7b though- It was the mic used on Michael Jackson’s Thriller. (MJ could have used anything he wanted but - to your point- the specific combination of a particular mic on a particular voice is distinct.)
But the original subject was voices, not gear, so I’ll wrap up by reiterating the following-
Vocal fry is a naturally occurring phenomenon that, to my ears, is only annoying when it’s used as an affectation. Based on conversations I’ve had, I think the discourse around female vocal fry has made people self conscious about it. But the thing is- guys have it too! And guys “up speak” as well. I’ve caught myself doing it! What I’m saying is- the gender binary is a fiction and we’re all just on a spectrum! (That’s not actually what I was saying- disregard).
The Ricola tea sounds great. Another good one is hot water with lemon, honey and cayenne pepper. It seems to temporarily burn off the rasp for me.
One more quick point since the episode briefly touched on trans voices ( by way of Ben Shapiro which is hilarious and surreal). There was a trans actor in the Queen’s Gambit. I don’t know if many people noticed. She played an employee of the boarding school (teacher or chaplain perhaps...?) Anyway- I looked her up, and in addition to being an actress, she is also a vocal coach who specializes in helping people find and develop their voices after (and perhaps during) transition. I found that interesting and pretty moving
Re cosmetic surgery: one can do it "for herself" in the sense that she has so completely internalized whatever cultural ideal one might discuss that it honestly doesn't feel like it is "for" someone else, on the macro level. Obviously no one should do it because a specific individual asks them or wants them to do it. Many people at least used to say that they didn't want to be attractive but rather normal. I relate to that, as someone who has had an extremely high amount of cosmetic surgery. Not Michael Jackson/Joan Rivers level but truly a staggering amount.
Women’s voices! Yes, lower them if you can. Yes, limit vocal fry. I think there used to be a thing I referred to as “radio voices.” I.e. there were people, both men and women, whose voices sounded good on the radio, then on TV. People without radio voices could do all the less glamorous, but essential, behind the scenes work. Your voices are good enough that I am willing to listen to you. Unfortunately, as podcasting has become a thing, many people, both men and women, who are hard to listen to are now on the air. Grrr. Some could sound better with better equipment, I suppose, but some should stick to writing, research, etc. I do not stick with podcasts if the voices are awful.
It’s depressing that some universities feel the need to regulate many aspects of students’ lives. I was never a fan of fraternities and sororities, but I wouldn’t have wanted my alma mater to ban them when I was there. Voluntary organizations are good to have, especially in people’s formative years.
There’s one area in which I’d welcome a crackdown on student behavior, though: drinking. Maybe 21 is too high a drinking age, but if it’s the legal age in your state, and you’re running a university, it’s good for you to punish drinking on campus. Not only would it be a good lesson to students that the law matters, but it might weed out students who don’t take college seriously, and just want to get drunk and do the bare minimum academically.