Tangentially, I posit only a dude would pick a name like "Artemis" for himself. It's not only grandiose, it's a little bit creepy (particularly for an AGP who was exhibiting mildly predatory behavior). How many female-to-males would pick names like "Apollo" or "Theseus"? Not exactly a strategy for blending into the crowd, is it?
Eliza's observation that online communities could be fulfilling the role of the traditional charismatic cult leader is great. Groupthink has never been more accessible than it is today. (I do suspect there are still hierarchies of influence within these communities, and you could still probably identify if not one at least a cadre of "leaders" within them. But I imagine they'd be fungible in a way the prophets of yore weren't. Think less Jim Jones and more Politburo).
Oct 26, 2023·edited Oct 26, 2023Liked by Sarah Haider
Coming from a secular conservative background, it's always refreshing (not to mention humanizing) to hear stories of people who, 20 years ago, I would have considered political "enemies" (that not having been quite so bloodthirsty a thing as it's become) experiencing the same "what the fuck?" moments I did at about the same time, about the same things. There's definitely a commitment to reason (even when we fail at it in application) that trumps mere policy disagreements. I think we used to be able to take that for granted and amplify things like capital gains tax rates. Now that reason itself is under attack, it does a lot to redefine perceptions of friend and foe. When the barbarians are at the gate everybody's a loyal Roman. (A subject I naturally think about multiple times every day.)
Trashing: The Dark Side of Sisterhood is also good, though. Both essays seem perpetually relevant to dynamics in feminist (and other!) spaces. For example, this summer I saw the tyranny of structurelessness play out in my local community garden. The emails… 😳
Speaking about similarities to cults like the Moonies and the absence of a clear figurehead cult leader in the trans world - in 1994, when I was a young TV reporter in Missoula, MT, I interviewed some of the Heavens Gate members who later died in the mass suicide incident a few years after that. At the time, they called thmselves Total Overcomers and they were badically just travelling around and holding talk sessions wherever anyone would have them - they sent a fax to our newsroom, so I went with a camera and ended videotaping them for an hour - their dynamic was so fascinating because there wasn't anyone that I would describe as charismatic or a leader. Instead they were really quiet, and calm and content and soft spoken - but it was mesmerizing because I could feel myself starting to relate to them and "understand" them because they seemed so normal and non-threatening. Like awkward sheep who felt like they had finally found their flock ... so similar to the trans youth movement.
Even granted that AGP exists, I don't think it's right to apply it so broadly in the current movement. If you take, say, that recent women in science conference where men identified as "non-binary" to get in, it was so obviously a cynical ploy, and why not do it from their perspective? That's where the incentives lead.
It seems too credulous to me to say that all the people being treated as transgender actually are, in any sense whatsoever, transgender. Patients lie, either to other people or to themselves, to get medical care and other social benefits all the time.
Tangentially, I posit only a dude would pick a name like "Artemis" for himself. It's not only grandiose, it's a little bit creepy (particularly for an AGP who was exhibiting mildly predatory behavior). How many female-to-males would pick names like "Apollo" or "Theseus"? Not exactly a strategy for blending into the crowd, is it?
Eliza's observation that online communities could be fulfilling the role of the traditional charismatic cult leader is great. Groupthink has never been more accessible than it is today. (I do suspect there are still hierarchies of influence within these communities, and you could still probably identify if not one at least a cadre of "leaders" within them. But I imagine they'd be fungible in a way the prophets of yore weren't. Think less Jim Jones and more Politburo).
Coming from a secular conservative background, it's always refreshing (not to mention humanizing) to hear stories of people who, 20 years ago, I would have considered political "enemies" (that not having been quite so bloodthirsty a thing as it's become) experiencing the same "what the fuck?" moments I did at about the same time, about the same things. There's definitely a commitment to reason (even when we fail at it in application) that trumps mere policy disagreements. I think we used to be able to take that for granted and amplify things like capital gains tax rates. Now that reason itself is under attack, it does a lot to redefine perceptions of friend and foe. When the barbarians are at the gate everybody's a loyal Roman. (A subject I naturally think about multiple times every day.)
Jo Freeman wrote a few pieces. I think the one Sarah’s referencing is The Tyranny of Structurelessness: https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
Trashing: The Dark Side of Sisterhood is also good, though. Both essays seem perpetually relevant to dynamics in feminist (and other!) spaces. For example, this summer I saw the tyranny of structurelessness play out in my local community garden. The emails… 😳
A really interesting episode! loved your guest's sense of inquisitiveness, to say the least.
First!!!!!
WE ARE SO BACK!
Finally some sanity has been restored to the world
Speaking about similarities to cults like the Moonies and the absence of a clear figurehead cult leader in the trans world - in 1994, when I was a young TV reporter in Missoula, MT, I interviewed some of the Heavens Gate members who later died in the mass suicide incident a few years after that. At the time, they called thmselves Total Overcomers and they were badically just travelling around and holding talk sessions wherever anyone would have them - they sent a fax to our newsroom, so I went with a camera and ended videotaping them for an hour - their dynamic was so fascinating because there wasn't anyone that I would describe as charismatic or a leader. Instead they were really quiet, and calm and content and soft spoken - but it was mesmerizing because I could feel myself starting to relate to them and "understand" them because they seemed so normal and non-threatening. Like awkward sheep who felt like they had finally found their flock ... so similar to the trans youth movement.
Even granted that AGP exists, I don't think it's right to apply it so broadly in the current movement. If you take, say, that recent women in science conference where men identified as "non-binary" to get in, it was so obviously a cynical ploy, and why not do it from their perspective? That's where the incentives lead.
It seems too credulous to me to say that all the people being treated as transgender actually are, in any sense whatsoever, transgender. Patients lie, either to other people or to themselves, to get medical care and other social benefits all the time.
You're really not going to tell us what a latex fetish is?
I suppose you are wise to fear simply Googling it.
The theme tune is by a band in Australia right? Who are they? I want to check them out
Our theme music is the composition of friend-of-the-pod Mia Dyson, Australian rockstar!
No way, Mia Dyson, awesome! I'm Australian so fairly familiar with her.