Mothers, Martyrs, and Peach Eaters
In this episode of A Special Place In Hell, Sarah and Meghan discuss the recent meme craze spawned by a comic about eating peaches. Since the comic had to do with motherhood, a subject Meghan knows nothing about, Sarah took the lead and explained why mothers sometimes make more work for themselves than is strictly (or remotely) necessary. They then spend some time contemplating hookup culture and “sex positivity,” which Sarah thinks is anti-woman and Meghan suspects (posits? hypothesizes?) is for ugly chicks. #JustAskingQuestions
The women/girls then move on to their main topic, a recent Honestly podcast conversation between Bari Weiss and authors Louise Perry and Jill Filipovich about Perry’s forthcoming book The Case Against The Sexual Revolution. They gush over the book even though they haven’t yet read it and declare Perry to be an important and refreshing new voice (that may be able to get away with saying certain things because that voice is British). They are particularly interested in Perry’s thoughts about motherhood being incompatible with high achieving professional life and, by extension, individuality itself. Though Meghan has always been a proponent of universal daycare, she wonders if this would be tantamount to dropping your child off at the DMV. She then asks why westerners aren’t more amenable to intergenerational households and Sarah offers an epic lesson as to the pros and cons of living with a bunch of relatives. (Hint: it’s the patriarchy, stupid.) Also, small shouldn’t children drink tea!
In BONUS content only for paid subscribers, the co-hostesses ask if fatherhood is a central identity for men and if men with dangerous ideas censor themselves after starting families. Also: why Sarah’s husband doesn’t read anything she writes or listen to anything she says.
Links:
Honestly Podcast conversation on Bari Weiss’s Common Sense Substack
Daily Mail article about poly family, and the aftermath
Sarah’s Substack newsletter Hold That Thought
Meghan’s forthcoming community for freethinking women, The Unspeakeasy.
Mothers, Martyrs, and Peach Eaters
I really appreciated hearing a feminist conversation that didn't shy away from the subject of motherhood. (I also appreciated Meghan sharing her thoughts on why she chose to not have children — a lot of the child free movement can be oversimplified.) It's nuanced and I think when we talk about female equality, we glaze over just how central being able to carry and give birth to another human being is to being a woman.
My biggest issue with the solutions people recommend for parity is they either want Lean In-style feminism that puts the onus completely on a perfect powerhouse of a woman, or there's an expectation to just pay women to stay home. I think to come to an actual solution, we need to rewind even further and understand that throughout human history, we have had different ways of conferring status or wealth to people based on their contributions to society. It's only a relatively recent phenomenon that we have had a system where people show up to work, sit in front of a computer and are rewarded with imaginary numbers in an imaginary piggy bank on their phone.
Part of being "a mom" 200 years ago didn't just entail saving peaches for your darling children, but also running a household, educating your children and contributing to the community. Even women who didn't marry or have children were expected to contribute to this system. This did confer status and value to women (although they were still not considered directly equal to men).
I don't want to be accused of romanticizing the past (because in many ways, life was much more difficult for women in 1822), but I think there is something to be said for women having value beyond a paycheck or sexual appeal. Perhaps we just need to choose to value women for what they are instead of just expecting them to be more like men. 🤷🏻♀️
I also applaud the real talk about motherhood. When I quit my job -- after having my first child and because my female boss would not welcome me back part-time -- I interviewed (ironically) with a man at another company who said "Motherhood, It changes everything, doesn't it?". I worked for that non profit for 20 hours a week for 12 years, because they let me set the terms and paid me well. The baby had, indeed, changed everything. I remember finding a book at that time titled "The Irreducible Needs of Children". Well, yes. It is so demanding to be a mother and it is different from being a father, though I hesitate to say that out-loud and I speak only for my family. But my husband could walk out the door without looking back when we had a newborn while I felt like I had a wire pulling me back to my children after 5 hours away. I couldn't imagine leaving from 7 to 7. All mothers face these choices. My best friend hired a nanny and went back, happy to be at the office. I did child care and work with no great career strides at the end of the day. But it worked for me. I hated Lean In when it came out and I still do. My joke then and now was "women don't want to lean in--they want the flexibility to go to a child's game or be with their child while still earning a living". I wish we had more conversations like the one you two had today, but I think words like biology and the idea that children might have "irreducible" needs sound antifeminist and so are not spoken about. And I write this as a feminist raised by a feminist. Oh, and men and part time work for men and women are clearly part of the "solution" but in this country, I won't hold my breath on real changes in how much is required by "work" and I wonder how many men are dying to be home part time to watch the kids (as I was).